It got to the point where she was dying. It's not enough to be given the treatment and see an improvement afterward. And the third thing she noticed was she was see it with her eyes. Craig Keener: It's my privilege. And I talked with two of her doctors from the time and they both testified, "Yes, this is, there's no medical explanation for this." It's not the fullness. This effect has been seen a lot, but a good example is the Rendelsham Forest UFO sighting where there is a big difference between the original reports and the later reports or the Barney and Betty Hill case of alien abduction where one can track the contamination of the story to popular media depictions of aliens. So these are signs of the Kingdom, their foretaste of the Kingdom, but we're still longing for the day we're gonna see him face to face. The bias is on the person making the positive claim. What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? And, in fact, one doctor described her as being one of the most hopelessly ill patients he'd ever encountered.. She talked about when here daughter Terese was two years old that she cried out that she had been bitten by a snake and by the time her mother had got to her she found her not breathing. The Association of American Universities (AAU), Fostering and Protecting Free Speech on Campus, Renew Investments in Vital Scientific Infrastructure, AAU Universities Battle the Opioid Crisis, Progress Toward Achieving Systemic Change, The Strategic Role of a National Organization. God is going to wipe away every tear from our eyes. Craig Keener: Yeah, and by the time Yeah and eventually it was over a 1000. The situation was pretty hopelessuntil something quite shocking happened. Find your thing. READ ALSO: Columbine Survivor's Powerful Lessons After Facing Terror. They also make the claim that, for example, in Heidi Baker's ministry in Mozambique these healing happen "all the time" and are thus replicable. On this episode, she lays out the case for investing more in academic research, and what we may lose if we don't. Subscribe to Big Brains on Apple Podcasts , Stitcher and Spotify. He ended up reading and it led him into a life of scholarship. A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. It's not enough to show an effect that's really rare, maybe that's your first motivation, like "oh wow, this is a weird case. This means that the original measurements were not accurate enough to establish the lengths, and the follow-up that said it grew back are also not enough. If you are willing to believe the Barbard Snynder case, then you should be willing to believe this woman was healed of Parkinson's with "Energy Healing" or you should believe in the Golden Plates of Joseph Smith (making you a Mormon). Craig Keener: Yeah, she came on a fiance visa, which unfortunately took a bit longer than it should have because by the time we finally made up our minds to get together 9/11 happened right when we were getting ready to send the materials in. I made a number of these errors in the episode, and I think it is because 1) the scientific papers (rightly) don't use names and 2) when the stories are told they don't cite their sources well and 3) I'm terrible with names. We're here at the meetings at the Evangelical Theological Society talking with Dr. Craig Keener. For 15 years she had been going downhill. I wrote about some of these cases in another post and I've written about miracles many times. University of Virginia, as well as private ones including Harvard, Yale, MIT, A bit of Bible, A bit of Life, A bit of Politics, Barbara Snyders healing from MS shockeddoctors, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/98-miraculous-healing-of-3-month-old-baby.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/forgiving-to-forget-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/13mysteryguard.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/dreams-and-visions-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/meekinheritanceworking-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/bringing-the-pain-in-prayer-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/whychristmasfellondec25.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wjinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/spiritual-warfare-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/kate-fisherinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/podcast-5-what-really-sunk-peter-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/4-edited-you-are-not-a-mistakeaud.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/3authorityopentheword.mp3. Now, Strobel, whose personal story was told through the Pure Flix feature film, book anddocumentarytitled The Case for Christ, has released The Case for Miracles, a new investigative book that relies on facts, interviews, and studies to further explore spiritual matters. Facebook gives people the power. We're all aware of suffering in the world, but miracles is a happy topic. Since these diseases are genetic, it makes it a lot less likely that she had this condition. In particular, it includes an interview with Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed from advanced multiple sclerosis, as also attested by her two physicians. I am confident that Case Western 2) A child dies from after a doctor concluded that this would be the outcome of the disease. [] why are they not healed if the context matters and we're defining a miracle as you know divine intervention not just a highly improbable event then how come there's no divine intervention there and if the answer is well god works in mysterious ways who knows well you know that's kind of a hand wave, Elijah: i think also calling a handwave kind of undermines something is imagine you caught a murderer and uh you saw him shoot a guy and he goes well i i haven't shot anyone before in my life um is that what we're trying to show is these are real examples i can't explain the soldier coming home that that makes perfect sense but what i can say is there was a blind lady and she got prayer and her eyes opened up and she had macular degeneration they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences. Scott Rae: -semi anti-supernatural vibes. #unbelievable Yeah. All I knew was the last letter I got from her said that she didn't know if she was going to live or die. I mean you could see it, the stories are so compelling that just based on the empirical data that you have, I found the case for miracles pretty hard to refute. Is it possible to start by eliminating the theistic hypothesis? Shermer: well the counterfactual what about the christian families who pray for their loved one who's dying from cancer and they just die nothing happens from the prayer that happens all the time. Thank you for being with us. This is the reason the specifics matter. Do you have a testimony that is medically verified?. And, in fact, one doctor described her as being one of the most hopelessly ill patients he'd ever encountered." It was from a different Congo so the person who did that doesn't know their geography. I want this post to be the place where I put as many of the specific miracle claims, the actual evidence presented, and some of the responses. It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago, Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and The Billy Hallowell Podcast. But my skepticism didn't go away.. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. It doesn't mean to stop praying for healing. Barbaras impact on this university has been so broad and deep that we will not understand the full extent of her legacy for years and perhaps decades to come, Wyant said. but there comes a point when enough is enough. Despite several operations and treatments, Barbara continued to deteriorate to the point that she was put into respite with doctors orders not to resuscitate. Also, the theists show a profound lack of imagination in coming up with studies that can test the involvement of an agent, while ruling out other effects. This is why causal connections are so hard to establish, because not only do you have to demonstrate a real effect, you have to somehow distinguish possible causes. Is this case unusual? "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. It is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence is enough? For example, if you take the population of people who go to Rome on pilgrimage each year, you can calculate the fraction of those with diseases that will go into remission. randomized controlled studies, well considered controls, etc) to avoid these confounders. Finally, this gripe about a naturalistic bias is completely misguided. And they said, "Macular degeneration doesn't undegenerate." Keener: in terms of anomalies whether they're anomalies or whether they're explainable in some way it helps if there's a pattern. Some initial thoughts Time stamp 4:47 James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. But if it hasn't been after so many years people say, "Ah, it might just be temporary.". James Fodor compares healing claims to homeopathy -- we have millions claiming an effect, and if we just counted those then we might be convinced that homeopathy was a real treatment. Thus we will more often hear from the healing crowd. They are claiming there is a causal effect, they are claiming that these things happen regularly enough to be observed, yet they want to hide behind the idea that it is somewhat random and not actually try to test it. Adapted from Editorial Theme html5up.net | @ajlkn, I've read some of the first volume. That's biola.edu/thinkbiblically. He's effectively asked "look, according to your explanation we would expect miracles to occur actually in many more cases because god apparently has the the reasons and the motivation and the context for him to perform miracles there but he doesn't, so there's a plausibility issue there with with your explanation" Shermer's identified one aspect that seems to be accounted for poorly on the miracle explanation. As you begin your hike, set your sights on a new direction. This last part is the reason we set up replication, controls, and other processes to minimize the effects of the limitations. If there's that many cases there should be enough regularity to detect these things statistically which is exactly the tools we've developed in science to do and to rule out other factors. We know God worked many and mighty miracles throughout biblical times, but for many Christians, we dont see as much evidence for miracles in our lives as there was in biblical times. The treatment involves active physical intervention with the subject. God can heal us through exercise or just the things he's placed in our body. You need to collect the records, have a medical professional who can actually make sense of that data, and have a medical specialist who is willing to look at the data. As she listened, she said that she heard a male voice coming from the corner of the room a voice she now believes was God. Counter Apologist Discussion, I highly recommend starting with this since it delves into at least three of the sources I discussed. All rights reserved. But anyway, all healing is temporary because sooner or later we're gonna die unless the Lord comes back before then. But I'm grateful for the, the engagement that's come since then because there has been a lot of good engagement and people have taken it seriously and taken to heart some of the arguments in it. My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. The point is to first establish that there is some interesting effect there, regardless of the cause, and only after passing that threshold do we get to consider a more in-depth investigation. But there are other cases were the person had been dead for eight hours. These responses just seem so, I don't know, juvenile to me like it's like they haven't thought about these issues. These two cases are some of the best they have, and they are only modestly interesting, and have plausible mundane explanations. This time with them pushing her father, disabled father in a wheel barrel and they left a home that they would never see again and ended up basically in the forest, or villages in the forest, abandoned buildings, for the next year and a half. Kamil makes the interesting point that the testimonies of different religions only reflect what that particular religion has as a theological component. If you want to, for our listeners, if you want to read a little bit more about it Craig's written a fairly lengthy book on the whole, the whole narrative of that called Impossible Love. But she, but it happened. You can get a free, one-month trial here. Yeah ,that's what Ii just asked you about! We use cookies to better understand website visitors, for advertising, and to offer you a better experience. Although MS can come in milder forms, Barbara's condition deteriorated quickly. ), but with the best they ever give us (like the cases above), the second you dig a little bit you find that all the evidence kind of vaporizes or there are plausible alternative explanations that take only a minute to come up with. How has the book been received, both in Christian circles and then outside Christian circles? She heard a voice saying, "My child, rise up and walk." Untrustworthy Our Cultural Knowledge Crisis, [BONUS] The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. Really? I asked. The deaf will hear. First of all, is that true? We know better now, and we often know what the minimum amount of data is to justify a particular claim. Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked againand that's not all. By this point, she was almost blind and . The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. You've done tremendous work on it that is a huge benefit to the Kingdom, not only with your technical biblical scholarship, but with this incredible stuff you've done on miracles. "[5], In 2011, Cleveland.com reported Barbara R. Snyder's total compensation for the year of 2009 was $778,874.[6]. It's here for completeness, even though there isn't much more we can say. 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A life of scholarship a life of scholarship with Dr. craig Keener barbara snyder miracle person making positive. Theological Society talking with Dr. craig Keener: Yeah, and to you... Discussion, I 've read some of the sources I discussed cookies to better understand website visitors, advertising. Of scholarship that particular religion has as a Theological component that is medically verified? can heal us exercise...

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